None of this is surprising in the least or difficult to understand: Leftist morality is based on Who/Whom and nothing else (and always has been and always will be).
Whether it's "the people" or "the masses" or "the general will" vs the nobility and clergy, the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie, the Soviet liquidation of the Kulaks, the Maoist Red Guard vs "imperialist running dogs" or "capitalist roadsters" it is the same dynamic, the same old wine in a new bottle.
What we call "the Left" seems to be the West's chronic autoimmune disease that flares up about once or twice a century to instrumentalize and weaponize all the injustice and suffering inherent in the world and turn it into a great spiritual and moral battle, as a new generation of alienated secular intellectuals cook up a new ideology to enlist the aggrieved, the miserable, the young and gullible—it's money that's the root of evil! no, it's society! no, it's whitey! no, it's norms like having to obey mom and dad! ad infinitum...
And another constant here, as displayed in previous Left eruptions, is how weak and supine the liberal class is in face of anyone who claims they're "making the world a better place" and/or that they speak on behalf of the Oppressed. All of these campus kindergarten tantrums could have been ended many years ago if even ONE college admin or prez had delivered a strong penalty for an illiberal outburst—but not one student has been expelled or even had their scholarship yanked, no matter how hateful or toxic or moronic their behavior.
Hopefully a few good things will come from this mass public outpouring of support for a barbaric massacre: No one will believe anymore that the campus Red Guard and their gurus have any principles except accruing power to attack their enemies and no one will believe anymore that we can expect any strength of character from any credentialed and well-paid member of the liberal ruling class.
This is the eternal dynamic of the Left vs the liberal class: deranged apocalyptic moralism aka destroying all that exists for "Justice" battering spineless cowards with no real beliefs except money and status, who are willing to excuse and forgive anything as long as they get to keep their corner office and 401(k).
But if the past holds true, we also know how this will end: both these groups will destroy each other and destroy all they can get their hands on, and the rest of us will get to live in the rubble.
but we've seen this movie before: liberals have an Achilles' heel that their opponents always locate: their terminal relativism, their terror of making someone suffer, their neurotic anxiety about being "good".
also, liberals, no matter how smart, just have no theory of mind when it comes to fanaticism or social pathologies, they really believe everyone is as kind-hearted and conciliatory as they are, and they really believe that everyone on earth would be just like them if only they could get some time on a shrink's couch.
Well said CP! And when you combine your "deranged apocalyptic moralism" with Brad's "highly abstract, intellectualized" framing of the Hamas barbarism by the left, the result is a powerfully malevolent cognitive dissonance.
it is odd how one side of the Left brain preaches egalitarian humanism and a utopia of liberation and the other side always ends up committing massacres and attempting to exterminate their enemies.
it's almost like they delude themselves into thinking they're better and kinder than the rest of us when they're really just angrier and filled with so much resentment that they can't see the hatred pouring off of them.
none of us can fully step out of our Jungian shadows, but Leftists don't even know they have one.
.Excuse me, but you don't have to be a liberal, or young, to march against a genocide, and if you do that does not mean you endorse Hamas and what they have done, or go along with a woke agenda. Maybe you're just someone who sees the wrong of a genocide being carried out, and endorsed by so many.
if Israel wanted to commit any sort of "genocide" they could have pushed one button and done it weeks ago. They are not doing any such thing, they are prosecuting a WAR, which was started by Hamas' barbarian massacre.
There is no genocide, if anything read the Hamas charter which is pledged toward genocide, there is just the usual rhetorical escalation, moralistic onanism and selective outrage that seems to be endemic among the Western Left aka the perpetually aggrieved and feeble-minded.
It's odd that in all your weepy compassion, I have yet to hear a word about the people murdered last month or the 240 hostages (including infants—think of the children!). What about compassion for them?
Sorry you bet on the wrong horse here, if there are 2 futures being proposed, I will happily cast my lot with my Israeli friends vs the homicidal fanatics of Hamas.
That’s the key. The future. Ask anyone, which version of the future would you want to live under?" Everyone knows what a “free Palestine” would look like. The proponents in the west also know they would never have to live there
Decolonization: coming soon to a theater near you. When the far leftists say "settlers aren't civilians" they aren't just talking about Israel. Among the pro Hamas protesters are the same Antifa BLM TRA crowd that's been coming for loan forgiveness, reparations and land back "by any means necessary." If we are to stop them we need to recognize the threat, including our own radicalized fair haired youth. Thanks for all your excellent connecting of dots, Brad.
Also. Went to Cal in the 70's. Went in as a young liberal, came out of the experience as a conservative. It was play the game or get poor grades and it really pissed me off
So it doesn't bother you that Israel is removing a people from their land and killing thousands and thousands as they do, wiping out whole families as they try to make their escape, or that Israel is dropping bombs on hospitals killing patients, often babies and children, with the lie that Hamas has dug their tunnels under these hospitals.
Three things. First has anyone caught on to the irony that most of the people supporting "decolonization efforts" were also the same ones claiming that legions of Nazi's were about to take over America and "gas ze Juden"? Second, please don't bring Noah Rothman into this. The guy is Bill Kristol levels of neocon with the same levels of hypocrisy and self-awareness. Finally, I am fucking enraged that a bunch of the progressive wine mom writer crowd are trying to pretend that somehow these anti-Semitic lefty college students are anything but lefty college students. They sure don't look like Republicans to me with all the rainbow flags and decrying "whiteness".
I suppose they don't want the Europeans to pick up the idea of decolonization, although seeing the protests by lots of Muslim immigrants I can absolutely see the appeal of getting rid of them post-haste.
Not really, that would mean admitting the people that were called right-wing deplorables, Nazis and islamophobes were right. And the left-wing antisemitism is very deeply rooted as well. The upcoming state elections will be interesting, I doubt the people believe the rhetoric. It will take some time for German politicians to digest the latest serving of humble-pie.
I think what unites both Muslim and lefty antisemitism is the fact that Jews are a small minority and are usually doing extremely well compared to the broader population and especially some other minorities. It suggests that it's culture to a large extent, not "race", that determines success in a free market system. The Muslim world sees Israel, which in a couple decades turned a desert devoid of natural resources into a garden and a modern, first-world country while most of the Muslim population still lives in relative squalor with little education beyond their one book. Even the vast natural resources in some Muslim countries can only be exploited with Western help. A Muslim country without oil would look a lot like Gaza, producing nothing but extremists.
Personally one of the most frustrating things is this oppressor/oppressed framework is basically a giant ridiculous layer cake conspiracy theory. Yet, the elite college students who believe it would call Me a conspiracy theorist for saying “Isn’t it odd (proven in Twitter Files Number 9) the CIA was sitting on group calls with every tech entity from Twitter to the damn Wikimedia Foundation?” And “Don’t you find it strange that the same groups (Open Society, Ford, MacArthur, Knight) fund pro-censorship groups as well as both Anti-Oxy (P.A.I.N.) and “Anti-Drug War” groups like Drug Policy Alliance.
Hell, the elite college antisemites would probably call Me an antisemite for being angry at what Open Society bankrolls.
The irony, of course, is that the ADL is perhaps the biggest spreader of the anti-white "supremacist" slander which gave rise to all the DIE bullshit, which in turn has now turned its sights on the Jews:
And they continue with that slander, no matter how obvious it becomes that it's only the far left and Muslims who are marching for the destruction of Israel.
FTr i was initially against Israel’s response as I felt they were doing what Hamas wanted them to do. I do not think I was wrong about hamas’ plan. But it may be backfiring. Berenson had a good article on that.
I thought it lamentable as well, but I don't really see an alternative as of now. Hamas needs to get their ass kicked, perhaps even destroyed although I don't think Israel is able to manage that.
It doesn't seem like Hamas is a tiny majority holding the millions of Gazans who just want peace and prosperity hostage. There must be a lot of support for Hamas (when they had elections a lot of people voted for them after all). Similarly, it wouldn't have been possible for the Taliban to take back Afghanistan if there wasn't a large part of the population supporting them. The same goes for ISIS, the same goes for Hamas.
the problem is Hamas real leadership is safe in Qatar spending their billions, so Israel cannot get to them. but yes they are representative of what Palestinians want in every way. A generation of brainwashing makes it a semi-permanent thing. but there isa real reason that the Egyptians and Jordanians (whose King the Palestinians assassinated in 1951) do not want them in their country and are quietly rooting for Israel..
Interesting article, also the contrast with the large pro-Palestine (and sometimes pro-Hamas) protests in Europe and the USA. Feels a bit like luxury beliefs on the part of the protestors.
Recall what happened to ISIS during the Trump administration. The 3rd Obama administration has reinstated ISIL and is working hard to destroy the West.
I always noted that Obama used the term ISIL The S stands for Syria. the L stands Levant, which includes the area Israel occupies. i always thought he was tipping his hand as to how he really feels by making that distinction.
I will reply to fully & properly later. But you are wrong about Hamas using hospitals as covers for their weapons. They have made most of that area an anthill of underground tunnels & weapons storage. Especially under schools, hospitals & the like as they use these as shields. The full scale of this may not be known until this stage of this war is over.
Here's a headline for you that has been accepted by Israel, "Israel revises down toll from October 7 attack to ‘around 1,200’ Israelis. Officials say the original death toll of 1,400 included unidentified corpses now believed to be Hamas fighters." No babies found beheaded, and no definitive proof that women were raped. Many Israelis were killed as they hid in their houses, or were held hostage by Hamas, killed by Israeli soldiers. Also, lets get something straight, Netanyahu courted Hamas, empowered them, since neither wanted a two state solution, which undermined Abas, who did. Gazans resided in an outdoor prison, with no way our and were periodically slaughtered. Their lives were restricted and impoverished for many years, and mostly young people, children who never even voted for Hamas.Going back a bit, many blame Netanyahu for the death of Yitzhak Rabin due to his incendiary rhetoric in regard to the Oslo accords. I doubt if most people who are protesting excuse what Hamas did, so what are they protesting? They are protesting the ongoing slaughter of mostly young people, children since they constitute half of the Gazan population. Their hospitals are being bombed with the lie that Hamas have dug their tunnels under these hospitals. Babies are dying in Gaza, and sometimes I see a mother trying to comfort her dead child she rocks in her arms. Where the hell is your empathy for that? The carnage no doubt made easier by the perspective Gallant spewed out, animals, not deserving of food, or water, or fuel. This is what people are protesting and you don't even have the heart to see it, or feel compassion, Shame on you! Too bad so many German's never had compassion for Jews , Poles, Gypsies, etc slaughtered by Hitler, and never spoke out against their carnage.
Don't Oh, Fran me, and to respond to my opinion with such condescension is sickening, and you haven't the courage to even deal with an opposing point of view on this issue. Do you?
You know Brad don't think I'm not aware of your patronizing attitude, and your desire to dismiss what I say with an anti-feminist comment, like my response is over emotional. If I were to play your chauvinistic game, I would say your just not man enough to counter my argument. You couldn't. Goodbye, and grow up.
Why because he reflect yours? You're totally incapable of addressing what I said, or unwilling to see the other side of things. That's your problem, not mine.
Please, don't use feminism here. We are women who want to be treated equally, not specially. His response is no different than a woman's who may disagree. Women are stronger than that.
Don't lecture me on feminism especially because you haven't a clue as to the work I have done in this field, and if I feel that someone is dismissing me as being emotional in my response, which is often used by men to dismiss woman, and what they say, I'm going to call him out on it.
I understand that many leftists and "Palestinians" have less than a working understanding of the English language. If I can help you "Fran", the contraction for "you are" is "you're". You're welcome.
Well, Hamas is not my friend and I never supported them or how Israel chooses to use them, well how Netanyahu does, and if you are willing to do some research on line you will find many who have written articles on their relationship, yes relationship. Neither one wants a two state solution so Netanyahu has empowered this group. Their assaults provide Israel an opportunity to attack Gaza, like what is going on now, but like always mostly killing the indigenous population in the concentration camp he has set up. You can spend your time trying to convince me , but how will you convince a world who is turning their back on Israel.
"I doubt if most people who are protesting excuse what Hamas did, so what are they protesting?" Then why did all the protesting and crocodile tears start even before the IDF invaded? Why did people immediately express support for Hamas the same day the committed a barbaric massacre?
"They are protesting the ongoing slaughter of mostly young people, children since they constitute half of the Gazan population." Think of the children! is the lowest form of argument and the basest form of emotional manipulation. Western liberals don't seem to weep for Uighur children or Armenians or the children killed by Assad or in Yemen etc, only for the children Hamas hides behind. And only one side of this conflict deliberately murders infants, and it aint Israel.
"This is what people are protesting and you don't even have the heart to see it, or feel compassion, Shame on you!" No one gives a shit about performative displays of compassion, that ship has sailed years ago, and if you want to whine and cajole anyone call your friends in Hamas: they could end this war immediately by dropping their weapons and releasing the hostages. Or don't they deserve compassion too? Why do you "care" more about their own children than they do!?
What people like you refuse to accept is that Hamas declared WAR on Israel and it is WAR they are getting. On one side of this war are hateful barbarians who would slit your throat if they could, who follow NO RULES OF WAR, who are filled with genocidal hatred and treat their own children like human shields; on the other side is a civilized country filled with civilized people who do their best to follow international law and who respect civil rights in their country, including for Arabs and for gays (who your friends in Hamas would murder).
You are free to choose to side with the barbarians who would murder you if they could, in fact I encourage you to head to Gaza asap and get an up-close taste of Hamas justice yourself.
Read this and perhaps you'll understand how the world is perceiving Israel. Just one article of many. Hundreds, No one is doing Israel any favors by condoning their actions, and supporting Netanyahu's carnage, or calling those who oppose it, Nazi's. In fact these people are Israel's worst enemy.
Egyptian Journalists Syndicate launches “Global Conscience Convoy” to push for opening of Rafah Crossing
“The Palestinian people of Gaza are not only facing the deadly arsenal of the Israeli military but are also being denied the most basic necessities of life, including water, food, medicine, and fuel, as a result of the brutal siege imposed by this modern-day Nazi war machine, this systematic extermination is aimed at displacing the Palestinians from their land and extinguishing their cause. It is a crime against humanity that will forever stain the conscience of the world.”
Look I don't like Hamas, never, but Netanyahu does, look it up and see how he supported them through the decades. Yitzhak Rabin, a good man, killed by a fanatic and many believe including Rabin's wife cause by the extremist rhetoric of Netanyahu.
Netanyahu and Likud are certainly the worst choice to handle this situation, having had a big hand in causing it. But still: What would a state for the Palestinians look like? I think it would probably look a lot more like Libya today than Israel, in which case Israel gained nothing with still having to defend against terrorism every day.
Have you read about what is going on in the West Bank, people thrown out of their homes, harassed and brutalized, and it's the next to go? Why are the Gazans in an outdoor prison, with little sense of a future? Half the people their are under the age of 18, and didn't vote for Hamas. Read about the oil reserves in Gaza.
By the way Libya was destroyed on the lie of committing genocide.. The people there lived a good life, and no slave markets, but now there are. Biden pushed and pushed those middle eastern knowing everything he said was a lie. Israel has never been willing, and never made the attempt to integrate themselves, define themselves as Middle Eastern, and are attached at the hip to the West. A big problem for getting along with your neighbors, and some have even called her our base in the Middle East, and that is no favor. Well, good night, and get a good nights sleep. I enjoyed talking to someone that didn't feel it necessary to dismiss me.
To accuse people who feel compassion for the people of Gaza where the death tolls number in the many thousands, and many of them children as being antisemitic and on a par with Nazi's is something that should be condemned.
None of this is surprising in the least or difficult to understand: Leftist morality is based on Who/Whom and nothing else (and always has been and always will be).
Whether it's "the people" or "the masses" or "the general will" vs the nobility and clergy, the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie, the Soviet liquidation of the Kulaks, the Maoist Red Guard vs "imperialist running dogs" or "capitalist roadsters" it is the same dynamic, the same old wine in a new bottle.
What we call "the Left" seems to be the West's chronic autoimmune disease that flares up about once or twice a century to instrumentalize and weaponize all the injustice and suffering inherent in the world and turn it into a great spiritual and moral battle, as a new generation of alienated secular intellectuals cook up a new ideology to enlist the aggrieved, the miserable, the young and gullible—it's money that's the root of evil! no, it's society! no, it's whitey! no, it's norms like having to obey mom and dad! ad infinitum...
And another constant here, as displayed in previous Left eruptions, is how weak and supine the liberal class is in face of anyone who claims they're "making the world a better place" and/or that they speak on behalf of the Oppressed. All of these campus kindergarten tantrums could have been ended many years ago if even ONE college admin or prez had delivered a strong penalty for an illiberal outburst—but not one student has been expelled or even had their scholarship yanked, no matter how hateful or toxic or moronic their behavior.
Hopefully a few good things will come from this mass public outpouring of support for a barbaric massacre: No one will believe anymore that the campus Red Guard and their gurus have any principles except accruing power to attack their enemies and no one will believe anymore that we can expect any strength of character from any credentialed and well-paid member of the liberal ruling class.
This is the eternal dynamic of the Left vs the liberal class: deranged apocalyptic moralism aka destroying all that exists for "Justice" battering spineless cowards with no real beliefs except money and status, who are willing to excuse and forgive anything as long as they get to keep their corner office and 401(k).
But if the past holds true, we also know how this will end: both these groups will destroy each other and destroy all they can get their hands on, and the rest of us will get to live in the rubble.
2nd sentence of your 4th paragraph is so true.
Just one for god sake! Someone please stand up!
Terrible reflection of our society.
but we've seen this movie before: liberals have an Achilles' heel that their opponents always locate: their terminal relativism, their terror of making someone suffer, their neurotic anxiety about being "good".
also, liberals, no matter how smart, just have no theory of mind when it comes to fanaticism or social pathologies, they really believe everyone is as kind-hearted and conciliatory as they are, and they really believe that everyone on earth would be just like them if only they could get some time on a shrink's couch.
is raining in SoCal today...pack a raincoat too!
;)
Lolol
you're getting me prepared for our trip back to San Diego for the holidays.
i might as well pack a couch
I'm missing Peter. I hope he's okay
Well said CP! And when you combine your "deranged apocalyptic moralism" with Brad's "highly abstract, intellectualized" framing of the Hamas barbarism by the left, the result is a powerfully malevolent cognitive dissonance.
it is odd how one side of the Left brain preaches egalitarian humanism and a utopia of liberation and the other side always ends up committing massacres and attempting to exterminate their enemies.
it's almost like they delude themselves into thinking they're better and kinder than the rest of us when they're really just angrier and filled with so much resentment that they can't see the hatred pouring off of them.
none of us can fully step out of our Jungian shadows, but Leftists don't even know they have one.
That’s exactly it. The purity of intention excuses everything. Makes them “dizzy from success” when they finally realize what they have done
.Excuse me, but you don't have to be a liberal, or young, to march against a genocide, and if you do that does not mean you endorse Hamas and what they have done, or go along with a woke agenda. Maybe you're just someone who sees the wrong of a genocide being carried out, and endorsed by so many.
"genocide" lol
stop regurgitating other people's propaganda.
if Israel wanted to commit any sort of "genocide" they could have pushed one button and done it weeks ago. They are not doing any such thing, they are prosecuting a WAR, which was started by Hamas' barbarian massacre.
There is no genocide, if anything read the Hamas charter which is pledged toward genocide, there is just the usual rhetorical escalation, moralistic onanism and selective outrage that seems to be endemic among the Western Left aka the perpetually aggrieved and feeble-minded.
It's odd that in all your weepy compassion, I have yet to hear a word about the people murdered last month or the 240 hostages (including infants—think of the children!). What about compassion for them?
Sorry you bet on the wrong horse here, if there are 2 futures being proposed, I will happily cast my lot with my Israeli friends vs the homicidal fanatics of Hamas.
That’s the key. The future. Ask anyone, which version of the future would you want to live under?" Everyone knows what a “free Palestine” would look like. The proponents in the west also know they would never have to live there
it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
Decolonization: coming soon to a theater near you. When the far leftists say "settlers aren't civilians" they aren't just talking about Israel. Among the pro Hamas protesters are the same Antifa BLM TRA crowd that's been coming for loan forgiveness, reparations and land back "by any means necessary." If we are to stop them we need to recognize the threat, including our own radicalized fair haired youth. Thanks for all your excellent connecting of dots, Brad.
Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon won't say it publicly, but Israel is doing them all a huge favor by degrading Hamas.
Also. Went to Cal in the 70's. Went in as a young liberal, came out of the experience as a conservative. It was play the game or get poor grades and it really pissed me off
Maybe your most brilliant column yet - exceedingly well written & thoroughly researched. Well done Brad!
So it doesn't bother you that Israel is removing a people from their land and killing thousands and thousands as they do, wiping out whole families as they try to make their escape, or that Israel is dropping bombs on hospitals killing patients, often babies and children, with the lie that Hamas has dug their tunnels under these hospitals.
Follow the news, Fran. Try to think. Concentrate.
Three things. First has anyone caught on to the irony that most of the people supporting "decolonization efforts" were also the same ones claiming that legions of Nazi's were about to take over America and "gas ze Juden"? Second, please don't bring Noah Rothman into this. The guy is Bill Kristol levels of neocon with the same levels of hypocrisy and self-awareness. Finally, I am fucking enraged that a bunch of the progressive wine mom writer crowd are trying to pretend that somehow these anti-Semitic lefty college students are anything but lefty college students. They sure don't look like Republicans to me with all the rainbow flags and decrying "whiteness".
I suppose they don't want the Europeans to pick up the idea of decolonization, although seeing the protests by lots of Muslim immigrants I can absolutely see the appeal of getting rid of them post-haste.
Germany is questioning the wisdom of their decision.
Not really, that would mean admitting the people that were called right-wing deplorables, Nazis and islamophobes were right. And the left-wing antisemitism is very deeply rooted as well. The upcoming state elections will be interesting, I doubt the people believe the rhetoric. It will take some time for German politicians to digest the latest serving of humble-pie.
Oh, certainly not the German POLITICIANS, but the German PEOPLE.
The problem with that being of course is that the politicians either aren't willing or capable to implement the will of the people in many cases.
I think what unites both Muslim and lefty antisemitism is the fact that Jews are a small minority and are usually doing extremely well compared to the broader population and especially some other minorities. It suggests that it's culture to a large extent, not "race", that determines success in a free market system. The Muslim world sees Israel, which in a couple decades turned a desert devoid of natural resources into a garden and a modern, first-world country while most of the Muslim population still lives in relative squalor with little education beyond their one book. Even the vast natural resources in some Muslim countries can only be exploited with Western help. A Muslim country without oil would look a lot like Gaza, producing nothing but extremists.
Great article as usual, Brad! I was a little surprised that we didn't see this "ad", but maybe you haven't seen it yet:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1724905212169838905
As if the problem is white kids online saying "Hitler was right" and not the throngs of people taking over city blocks........
Sadly most Jewish Americans don't recognize the round-about they entered has the same exit as the cul-de-sac they keep circling in.
A VERY ORTHODOX Jewish friend of mine (now 70 years old) is finally wondering if Jews should always support the Democrat party.
Good on him. I hope more can join Team Obvious.
Maybe there's a silver lining to this atrocity?
The best man in my wedding in college woke up during the Obama presidency and he hasn't looked back yet.
Personally one of the most frustrating things is this oppressor/oppressed framework is basically a giant ridiculous layer cake conspiracy theory. Yet, the elite college students who believe it would call Me a conspiracy theorist for saying “Isn’t it odd (proven in Twitter Files Number 9) the CIA was sitting on group calls with every tech entity from Twitter to the damn Wikimedia Foundation?” And “Don’t you find it strange that the same groups (Open Society, Ford, MacArthur, Knight) fund pro-censorship groups as well as both Anti-Oxy (P.A.I.N.) and “Anti-Drug War” groups like Drug Policy Alliance.
Hell, the elite college antisemites would probably call Me an antisemite for being angry at what Open Society bankrolls.
I've been looking for a good definition and explainer of intersectionality. I'm always so impressed by your articles. This one was great!
The irony, of course, is that the ADL is perhaps the biggest spreader of the anti-white "supremacist" slander which gave rise to all the DIE bullshit, which in turn has now turned its sights on the Jews:
https://patrick.net/post/1330903/2020-03-21-we-need-a-new-adl?start=8#comment-2000859
And they continue with that slander, no matter how obvious it becomes that it's only the far left and Muslims who are marching for the destruction of Israel.
FTr i was initially against Israel’s response as I felt they were doing what Hamas wanted them to do. I do not think I was wrong about hamas’ plan. But it may be backfiring. Berenson had a good article on that.
I thought it lamentable as well, but I don't really see an alternative as of now. Hamas needs to get their ass kicked, perhaps even destroyed although I don't think Israel is able to manage that.
It doesn't seem like Hamas is a tiny majority holding the millions of Gazans who just want peace and prosperity hostage. There must be a lot of support for Hamas (when they had elections a lot of people voted for them after all). Similarly, it wouldn't have been possible for the Taliban to take back Afghanistan if there wasn't a large part of the population supporting them. The same goes for ISIS, the same goes for Hamas.
the problem is Hamas real leadership is safe in Qatar spending their billions, so Israel cannot get to them. but yes they are representative of what Palestinians want in every way. A generation of brainwashing makes it a semi-permanent thing. but there isa real reason that the Egyptians and Jordanians (whose King the Palestinians assassinated in 1951) do not want them in their country and are quietly rooting for Israel..
They other Muslim countries only ever pretend to give a shit about the Palestinians when they can blame Israel.
Berenson wrote a good article yesterday on his stack regarding this yesterday. The title "the dog that did not bark" aligns with your observation.
Interesting article, also the contrast with the large pro-Palestine (and sometimes pro-Hamas) protests in Europe and the USA. Feels a bit like luxury beliefs on the part of the protestors.
Recall what happened to ISIS during the Trump administration. The 3rd Obama administration has reinstated ISIL and is working hard to destroy the West.
I always noted that Obama used the term ISIL The S stands for Syria. the L stands Levant, which includes the area Israel occupies. i always thought he was tipping his hand as to how he really feels by making that distinction.
It's unfortunately rather distasteful to see what works and what doesn't. There seem to be three choices:
1. Support a brutal dictatorship that suppresses or placates the radicals
2. Have an indefinite military and civilian presence, basically a colony with a puppet government and keep fighting against an insurgency
3. Leave the place to be run by the radicals and hope they are content fighting each other
I will reply to fully & properly later. But you are wrong about Hamas using hospitals as covers for their weapons. They have made most of that area an anthill of underground tunnels & weapons storage. Especially under schools, hospitals & the like as they use these as shields. The full scale of this may not be known until this stage of this war is over.
Here's a headline for you that has been accepted by Israel, "Israel revises down toll from October 7 attack to ‘around 1,200’ Israelis. Officials say the original death toll of 1,400 included unidentified corpses now believed to be Hamas fighters." No babies found beheaded, and no definitive proof that women were raped. Many Israelis were killed as they hid in their houses, or were held hostage by Hamas, killed by Israeli soldiers. Also, lets get something straight, Netanyahu courted Hamas, empowered them, since neither wanted a two state solution, which undermined Abas, who did. Gazans resided in an outdoor prison, with no way our and were periodically slaughtered. Their lives were restricted and impoverished for many years, and mostly young people, children who never even voted for Hamas.Going back a bit, many blame Netanyahu for the death of Yitzhak Rabin due to his incendiary rhetoric in regard to the Oslo accords. I doubt if most people who are protesting excuse what Hamas did, so what are they protesting? They are protesting the ongoing slaughter of mostly young people, children since they constitute half of the Gazan population. Their hospitals are being bombed with the lie that Hamas have dug their tunnels under these hospitals. Babies are dying in Gaza, and sometimes I see a mother trying to comfort her dead child she rocks in her arms. Where the hell is your empathy for that? The carnage no doubt made easier by the perspective Gallant spewed out, animals, not deserving of food, or water, or fuel. This is what people are protesting and you don't even have the heart to see it, or feel compassion, Shame on you! Too bad so many German's never had compassion for Jews , Poles, Gypsies, etc slaughtered by Hitler, and never spoke out against their carnage.
Oh, Fran.
Don't Oh, Fran me, and to respond to my opinion with such condescension is sickening, and you haven't the courage to even deal with an opposing point of view on this issue. Do you?
Fran, relax. You sound overly emotional. It's okay to disagree about things.
You know Brad don't think I'm not aware of your patronizing attitude, and your desire to dismiss what I say with an anti-feminist comment, like my response is over emotional. If I were to play your chauvinistic game, I would say your just not man enough to counter my argument. You couldn't. Goodbye, and grow up.
Clever Pseudonym has said it better than I could have. Maybe ponder his comments instead of attacking me for penning something you disagree with.
Why because he reflect yours? You're totally incapable of addressing what I said, or unwilling to see the other side of things. That's your problem, not mine.
Please, don't use feminism here. We are women who want to be treated equally, not specially. His response is no different than a woman's who may disagree. Women are stronger than that.
Don't lecture me on feminism especially because you haven't a clue as to the work I have done in this field, and if I feel that someone is dismissing me as being emotional in my response, which is often used by men to dismiss woman, and what they say, I'm going to call him out on it.
I understand that many leftists and "Palestinians" have less than a working understanding of the English language. If I can help you "Fran", the contraction for "you are" is "you're". You're welcome.
Since only 1,400 Jews were killed by your friends, Fran, maybe the world should just ignore it. You think?
Well, Hamas is not my friend and I never supported them or how Israel chooses to use them, well how Netanyahu does, and if you are willing to do some research on line you will find many who have written articles on their relationship, yes relationship. Neither one wants a two state solution so Netanyahu has empowered this group. Their assaults provide Israel an opportunity to attack Gaza, like what is going on now, but like always mostly killing the indigenous population in the concentration camp he has set up. You can spend your time trying to convince me , but how will you convince a world who is turning their back on Israel.
"I doubt if most people who are protesting excuse what Hamas did, so what are they protesting?" Then why did all the protesting and crocodile tears start even before the IDF invaded? Why did people immediately express support for Hamas the same day the committed a barbaric massacre?
"They are protesting the ongoing slaughter of mostly young people, children since they constitute half of the Gazan population." Think of the children! is the lowest form of argument and the basest form of emotional manipulation. Western liberals don't seem to weep for Uighur children or Armenians or the children killed by Assad or in Yemen etc, only for the children Hamas hides behind. And only one side of this conflict deliberately murders infants, and it aint Israel.
"This is what people are protesting and you don't even have the heart to see it, or feel compassion, Shame on you!" No one gives a shit about performative displays of compassion, that ship has sailed years ago, and if you want to whine and cajole anyone call your friends in Hamas: they could end this war immediately by dropping their weapons and releasing the hostages. Or don't they deserve compassion too? Why do you "care" more about their own children than they do!?
What people like you refuse to accept is that Hamas declared WAR on Israel and it is WAR they are getting. On one side of this war are hateful barbarians who would slit your throat if they could, who follow NO RULES OF WAR, who are filled with genocidal hatred and treat their own children like human shields; on the other side is a civilized country filled with civilized people who do their best to follow international law and who respect civil rights in their country, including for Arabs and for gays (who your friends in Hamas would murder).
You are free to choose to side with the barbarians who would murder you if they could, in fact I encourage you to head to Gaza asap and get an up-close taste of Hamas justice yourself.
Where do I find this information, Fran? I want to read it all for myself.
You'll have to get it telepathically...it doesn't exist...:)
That's what I thought.
What should Israel do instead?
Read this and perhaps you'll understand how the world is perceiving Israel. Just one article of many. Hundreds, No one is doing Israel any favors by condoning their actions, and supporting Netanyahu's carnage, or calling those who oppose it, Nazi's. In fact these people are Israel's worst enemy.
Egyptian Journalists Syndicate launches “Global Conscience Convoy” to push for opening of Rafah Crossing
“The Palestinian people of Gaza are not only facing the deadly arsenal of the Israeli military but are also being denied the most basic necessities of life, including water, food, medicine, and fuel, as a result of the brutal siege imposed by this modern-day Nazi war machine, this systematic extermination is aimed at displacing the Palestinians from their land and extinguishing their cause. It is a crime against humanity that will forever stain the conscience of the world.”
Wouldn't it be nice if the Egyptians helped out the people in Gaza instead of keeping them locked in their outdoor prison? Why don't they?
What Israel should have done decades ago, and that is to adopt a two state solution.
Wouldn't that just result in another failed Muslim state with the chief export of terrorism and refugees?
Look I don't like Hamas, never, but Netanyahu does, look it up and see how he supported them through the decades. Yitzhak Rabin, a good man, killed by a fanatic and many believe including Rabin's wife cause by the extremist rhetoric of Netanyahu.
Netanyahu and Likud are certainly the worst choice to handle this situation, having had a big hand in causing it. But still: What would a state for the Palestinians look like? I think it would probably look a lot more like Libya today than Israel, in which case Israel gained nothing with still having to defend against terrorism every day.
Have you read about what is going on in the West Bank, people thrown out of their homes, harassed and brutalized, and it's the next to go? Why are the Gazans in an outdoor prison, with little sense of a future? Half the people their are under the age of 18, and didn't vote for Hamas. Read about the oil reserves in Gaza.
https://unctad.org/news/unrealized-potential-palestinian-oil-and-gas-reserves
By the way Libya was destroyed on the lie of committing genocide.. The people there lived a good life, and no slave markets, but now there are. Biden pushed and pushed those middle eastern knowing everything he said was a lie. Israel has never been willing, and never made the attempt to integrate themselves, define themselves as Middle Eastern, and are attached at the hip to the West. A big problem for getting along with your neighbors, and some have even called her our base in the Middle East, and that is no favor. Well, good night, and get a good nights sleep. I enjoyed talking to someone that didn't feel it necessary to dismiss me.
To accuse people who feel compassion for the people of Gaza where the death tolls number in the many thousands, and many of them children as being antisemitic and on a par with Nazi's is something that should be condemned.