There are differences between the two cases, not that it makes one worse than the other, just different. So lets look at the similarities.
1. Both parties had confidential documents that, according to the rules, they should not have.
2. Both parties have been cavalier about the storage of these documents. A combination of sloppiness and arrogance.
3. (And this is speculative.) The main culprit is over classification. None of the docs if published in the NYT would have made a damn bit of difference.
Wel i assume you are questioning me on # 3 as #1 is the public report and #2 is apparent. And I did say #3 was speculative but I will stand by it. I do not need an expert to tell me what I know intuitively and classification is used much more to hide information from the people who have a right to know instead of protecting information from our adversaries.
Interestingly, even in the German media the Biden case is downplayed, the argument is that the Biden team turned over the documents voluntarily, so no big deal...
I'm wondering why this is coming out now? Did his staffers wait until after the mid-terms to turn the documents over? Is this all a coincidence? Also, how terrible is the US government at keeping track of secret documents? I think some of the documents Biden had in his possession were supposed to stay in the SCIF - that's the whole point. Did no one check?
I reject comparisons between the two incidents. The same laws regarding handling of classified material were transgressed. My personal view is that Trump retained the materials because he was hoping to use them to prove he had been cheated out of the 2020 win; Biden retained the materials because he was already incompetent at the time.
The root problem causing most of our other problems is that our main operating system (government/schools/media) have been corrupted.
If you tell us the kind of systems that govern over you, we can accurately predict your quality of life. If those systems are corrupted then so are you (and your families).
It is time to organize with other like minded individuals and fix them.
We know the solutions. Decentralize everything. Demand transparency in systems. And most efficiently, weaponize the tyranny of the masses back onto the people corrupting our systems to end this Global Agenda.
I worked with a group that had some classified and confidential files. I hadn't gotten my clearance at the time so I rode their butts over keeping stuff locked up.
I don't know about the archives people in DC but if they're even 1/10 as gung-ho as I was, Bidet would NOT have that paperwork. Not without signing for it! The vast majority of people who work with classified or confidential documents are EXTREMELY tight-assed about them. With good reason! They do not belong in garages or home libraries! Never, never, never!
"The vast majority of people who work with classified or confidential documents are EXTREMELY tight-assed about them."
This is because the vast majority of people who work with classified or confidential documents aren't a high-level political figure. This means they get free passes, just depending upon who's in charge of the DOJ at the time. Laws don't really apply to our lawmakers for some strange reason, unless they very blatantly kill someone intentionally, right before our very eyes, while not using a drone.....but I digress. Seriously, though, they aren't held to the same standard because all the rest of us just aren't as important, pure and simple.
He is the former president. He has been in discussions with the people in the archives in DC. He is also able to declassify documents. All presidents take documents with them for various reasons. President Trump did not do anything illegal. Plus, he has a secure, locked location, and plenty of Secret Service agents present.
Vice presidents are NOT allowed to remove classified files from a facility and cannot declassify them. Removing classified files from where they belong is a felony for anyone besides the president. Biden should not have classified files at his home!
There is a difference - a very big difference. No matter which of them you prefer, the law needs to be followed. Trump did not break the law. Biden did.
A President can’t just declassify documents without documentation or just “in his head”. It’s a dangerous notion that any one person could unilaterally declassify sensitive information without documentation, especially a President, who has access to everything. I hope this goes to court for clarification, as the rules and regs regarding declassification are vague. What the regs are clearer on though is that Presidents cannot unilaterally declassify documents highly classified to protect US security (easy example is nuclear or other defense information ). Further, if it were so, why did it take months for Trump himself to even claim he’d declassified 100s of docs, couldn’t recall exactly how but defended the in his head theory. And why has not a single Trump attorney put in writing that the President did indeed have such authority?
I don't understand the whole declassifying thing. I do know that the files were securely locked up.
If President Trump wasn't supposed have the files he has, why did the Secret Service ship them to his home in FL? At least Mar-A-Lago is secure.
What I wonder about is 1) why does President Biden have them at all, and 2) how and why did he get them? Nobody in DC (archives, librarians, etc.) seems to know that either. He has been careless with classified material in the past, or so I've read, which concerns me.
I have to ask if you subscribe to The Spectator too? I recently renewed my subscription which I’d let lapse and look forward to it almost as much as my Substack subs.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt that the double standards applied to these two cases are burning bright as, well, the sun.
Classically, double standards abound with both Democrats and Republicans and their aligned media. Republicans and Fox outraged at Biden and have no concerns with Trump, similarly Democrats and MSNBC accept Biden's case and disparage Trump's.
I'll confess ignorance of DOJ standards. From what I've seen, Garland's philosophy of when to appoint a special counsel seems to match his actions. Politically sensitive investigations headed by hopefully and nominally non-partisan attorneys. I'll speculate that neither president will be indicted. Because standing practice is to not indict a sitting president, and a resulting decision to prosecute Trump and not Biden would create more chaos in the country.
Appreciate your comments. I for one am very angry Biden, while now cooperating fully, doesn’t come out and give a statement to the point...”I will cooperate fully and if laws were broken I, and others involved, will accept the consequences.” So easy and so right. It in its simplicity would differentiate how these two men have handled the same screw up.
There are key differences for everyone to see, regarding how these these men handled the doc issue. both GOP and Dems need to get real.
Both men had docs they didn’t have a right to have. It violated law or refs
Biden had them longer and as a Vice President
Biden’s attnys turned them over to Archives and DOJ was notified
Finally, reporter finds outs and WH makes statement about cooperating
Trump received a request from Archives to return 100s of docs
He finally turned over some
Then transfers boxes to Mar a Lago and stalls on returning anymore
Then Archives and Trump attny “negogiate “ for months and months (paid for tax payers)
Trump is subpoenaed finally, to return docs
Stalls again
100s more docs are seized during a search under legal warrant.
The world seems to be becoming just as lawless as the days of the Wild West ...but with fewer consequences.
Unfortunately, I agree.
True that ☹️
There are differences between the two cases, not that it makes one worse than the other, just different. So lets look at the similarities.
1. Both parties had confidential documents that, according to the rules, they should not have.
2. Both parties have been cavalier about the storage of these documents. A combination of sloppiness and arrogance.
3. (And this is speculative.) The main culprit is over classification. None of the docs if published in the NYT would have made a damn bit of difference.
And you know this how?
Wel i assume you are questioning me on # 3 as #1 is the public report and #2 is apparent. And I did say #3 was speculative but I will stand by it. I do not need an expert to tell me what I know intuitively and classification is used much more to hide information from the people who have a right to know instead of protecting information from our adversaries.
Interestingly, even in the German media the Biden case is downplayed, the argument is that the Biden team turned over the documents voluntarily, so no big deal...
I'm wondering why this is coming out now? Did his staffers wait until after the mid-terms to turn the documents over? Is this all a coincidence? Also, how terrible is the US government at keeping track of secret documents? I think some of the documents Biden had in his possession were supposed to stay in the SCIF - that's the whole point. Did no one check?
I reject comparisons between the two incidents. The same laws regarding handling of classified material were transgressed. My personal view is that Trump retained the materials because he was hoping to use them to prove he had been cheated out of the 2020 win; Biden retained the materials because he was already incompetent at the time.
The root problem causing most of our other problems is that our main operating system (government/schools/media) have been corrupted.
If you tell us the kind of systems that govern over you, we can accurately predict your quality of life. If those systems are corrupted then so are you (and your families).
It is time to organize with other like minded individuals and fix them.
We know the solutions. Decentralize everything. Demand transparency in systems. And most efficiently, weaponize the tyranny of the masses back onto the people corrupting our systems to end this Global Agenda.
Please, give this some thought: https://open.substack.com/pub/joshketry/p/weaponized-direct-democracy-the-kryptonite?r=7oa9d&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Apparently a 4th set of documents was found yesterday. 5 new pages in his house in addition to the 1 found in his house.
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/what-msm-wont-tell-you-about-biden-documents/
I saw myself as guarding the castle...with nuclear capabilities (my boss).
I worked with a group that had some classified and confidential files. I hadn't gotten my clearance at the time so I rode their butts over keeping stuff locked up.
I don't know about the archives people in DC but if they're even 1/10 as gung-ho as I was, Bidet would NOT have that paperwork. Not without signing for it! The vast majority of people who work with classified or confidential documents are EXTREMELY tight-assed about them. With good reason! They do not belong in garages or home libraries! Never, never, never!
"The vast majority of people who work with classified or confidential documents are EXTREMELY tight-assed about them."
This is because the vast majority of people who work with classified or confidential documents aren't a high-level political figure. This means they get free passes, just depending upon who's in charge of the DOJ at the time. Laws don't really apply to our lawmakers for some strange reason, unless they very blatantly kill someone intentionally, right before our very eyes, while not using a drone.....but I digress. Seriously, though, they aren't held to the same standard because all the rest of us just aren't as important, pure and simple.
Well...I dunno. Trump claimed he could shoot someone on 5th Ave NY and no one would care...
I think that has more to do with the environment, re NYC. Many people are shot there, and no one seems to care.....it's kinda their "brand".
That’s not what Trump meant. He was talking about his popularity.
They don’t belong in Florida resorts either, right?
He is the former president. He has been in discussions with the people in the archives in DC. He is also able to declassify documents. All presidents take documents with them for various reasons. President Trump did not do anything illegal. Plus, he has a secure, locked location, and plenty of Secret Service agents present.
Vice presidents are NOT allowed to remove classified files from a facility and cannot declassify them. Removing classified files from where they belong is a felony for anyone besides the president. Biden should not have classified files at his home!
There is a difference - a very big difference. No matter which of them you prefer, the law needs to be followed. Trump did not break the law. Biden did.
A President can’t just declassify documents without documentation or just “in his head”. It’s a dangerous notion that any one person could unilaterally declassify sensitive information without documentation, especially a President, who has access to everything. I hope this goes to court for clarification, as the rules and regs regarding declassification are vague. What the regs are clearer on though is that Presidents cannot unilaterally declassify documents highly classified to protect US security (easy example is nuclear or other defense information ). Further, if it were so, why did it take months for Trump himself to even claim he’d declassified 100s of docs, couldn’t recall exactly how but defended the in his head theory. And why has not a single Trump attorney put in writing that the President did indeed have such authority?
I don't understand the whole declassifying thing. I do know that the files were securely locked up.
If President Trump wasn't supposed have the files he has, why did the Secret Service ship them to his home in FL? At least Mar-A-Lago is secure.
What I wonder about is 1) why does President Biden have them at all, and 2) how and why did he get them? Nobody in DC (archives, librarians, etc.) seems to know that either. He has been careless with classified material in the past, or so I've read, which concerns me.
I have to ask if you subscribe to The Spectator too? I recently renewed my subscription which I’d let lapse and look forward to it almost as much as my Substack subs.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt that the double standards applied to these two cases are burning bright as, well, the sun.
I don't subscribe to The Spectator, but I often read their articles. Great stuff.
Classically, double standards abound with both Democrats and Republicans and their aligned media. Republicans and Fox outraged at Biden and have no concerns with Trump, similarly Democrats and MSNBC accept Biden's case and disparage Trump's.
You’re right about the partisanship of media outrage. What’s your opinion of DOJ and its standards?
I'll confess ignorance of DOJ standards. From what I've seen, Garland's philosophy of when to appoint a special counsel seems to match his actions. Politically sensitive investigations headed by hopefully and nominally non-partisan attorneys. I'll speculate that neither president will be indicted. Because standing practice is to not indict a sitting president, and a resulting decision to prosecute Trump and not Biden would create more chaos in the country.
Appreciate your comments. I for one am very angry Biden, while now cooperating fully, doesn’t come out and give a statement to the point...”I will cooperate fully and if laws were broken I, and others involved, will accept the consequences.” So easy and so right. It in its simplicity would differentiate how these two men have handled the same screw up.
There are key differences for everyone to see, regarding how these these men handled the doc issue. both GOP and Dems need to get real.
Both men had docs they didn’t have a right to have. It violated law or refs
Biden had them longer and as a Vice President
Biden’s attnys turned them over to Archives and DOJ was notified
Finally, reporter finds outs and WH makes statement about cooperating
Trump received a request from Archives to return 100s of docs
He finally turned over some
Then transfers boxes to Mar a Lago and stalls on returning anymore
Then Archives and Trump attny “negogiate “ for months and months (paid for tax payers)
Trump is subpoenaed finally, to return docs
Stalls again
100s more docs are seized during a search under legal warrant.
Trump claims he’s a victim.
I know this. I was being sarcastic.