A note regarding the title: I should have said LGBTQ ideologues, not LGBTQ people. Not all LGBTQ people support what the movement has become. It's unfair to lump everyone together.
I was thinking about that as I read your article. I'm sure the majority of people who are gay don't approve of this behavior and feel if anything it threatens what this community has been after for years, acceptance.
There is no LGBT, because the original LGB labels describe a set of sexual orientations, while T is a personal perception of gender having nothing to do with sexual attraction. Pedophilia and Ephebophilia are not particularly common among those attracted to their own sex. In fact, we find that most pedophiles and ephebophiles do not have a particular gender preference. It's the innocence of youth that is the attraction.
It always amazes me that even though they claim they really are not "coming for our children" the pride folks are always at events with children, but I have NEVER seen them at the old folks home where I do rounds periodically. The old folks would be happy with ANY visitor -- but somehow the "not interested in the children" group are only interested in parades watched by children and reading books to children. Most of the old folks might listen to the books (they have little else to do) irrespective of what they say...but somehow there are no books about how "old folks can be queer" out there...but dozens about how children should be.
Well, although I don't approve of their behavior, or their explanation for engaging in it the young not yet indoctrinated, and more open minded would be the ones to reach out to. Of course it is quite obvious that they could learn by example, from parents, from teachers, from family, etc. I had a brother who was gay, and died of AIDS in the late eighties. When he was five it was even obvious that he was gay. An aunt singled him out at a Christmas party as he was stuffing his face with cake, and no one was about except me. "How does it feel to be a little homosexual boy?" she hissed, then spit in his face. I know full well all the pain he endured from a lack of acceptance. When we were small I use to have to beat guys up who tormented him, abused him when we were coming home from school, and since you're a doctor, well, when he had AIDs the docs were better then the nursing staff, the aids, and the rest of the hospital staff, but it was a horror, and not a caring refuge. I know my brother would never condone their behavior or think it was a way of changing people's minds, or seeing him for the good person he was. To me they make a mockery of all the pain people like my brother went through in the past in order to find acceptance.
but the ideolgues were always coming for the kids. tired of fighting with my wife about this so you guys get the brunt, sorry. Look at the percentages of kids identifying as non-straight. It has exploded and interestingly the explosion is along political/demographic lines. My youngest just graduated an extremely affluent public high school which is under the control of these ideologues. The percentage of kids that identify as a member of the rainbow is through the roof. A fair amount of these kids are trying to avoid the "white privledge" label being stuck on them as a badge of shame by the people who are supposed to be guiding them. a couple of his friends have come out as openly gay or bi just to avoid the BS. Neither of them were and they just went on as normal but they had checked a box to remove the stigma. but what about the more impressionable kids? the ones with less self esteem/respect? we will have decades to deal with the damage our educational establishment has done the last 5 years on this and everything else.
Reasonable people can disagree about whether kids ought to be taught anything about gay and transgender people in public schools. Personally, I don't think it needs to be part of any standard curriculum though it would be weird to teach "sex ed" and not mention the possibility of same sex relations. There's an argument to be made that kids are exposed to sexuality too early and are losing the innocence that ought to be integral to childhood. I'm on board with that line of thinking. But but but...this debate has nothing to do with the chant at the NYC Pride parade. The marchers at that parade don't intend to "groom" children. Nobody is wanting to make anybody else gay. That's just not on the agenda and, as a gay man myself, I believe I have some insight into the topic.
So why then did some of the marchers shout "we're coming for your children?" Because they knew it would upset and bait the kind of people who read this blog and because they were angry and wanted to basically give conservatives the finger. Because they thought it would be funny to pretend to be the monsters they are accused of being. Because they enjoy being provocative and outlandish and wanted negative attention.
Was it a stupid thing to say? Absolutely. Are they actual child molesters out to turn kids into little gays? Absolutely not. People who think they shouted the slogan because they really and truly intended to hurt children have misunderstood what went on.
> Was it a stupid thing to say? Absolutely. Are they actual child molesters out to turn kids into little gays? Absolutely not.
I don't believe you can credibly say that though. The only credible thing is what was said. Their intent and meaning are only speculative and while you speculate - and as do I - you and I can only both rely on their actual statements.
You don't have to be believe me Jason but I think I know my gay men. I've been an out gay fellow for decades now: marched in plenty of gay parades in the 90s, got arrested for civil disobedience in an ActUp demonstration, loved and lost and loved some more, and now, finally, am settling down into quiet gay middle-aged obscurity. I don't claim any expertise on lesbians or anything trans but gay men I know. And I can tell you that we're not interested in turning children gay. That's an ugly myth.
I know my gay men too and I'm with you, but there are new elements suddenly empowered in the mix. Some genuinely seem to think children have gender identities that should be explored and celebrated, which is a dangerous travesty of made up psychobabble but has many TikTokkers convinced. There are also anarchist and revolutionary agents provocateurs trying to drive Americans, who actually aren't that far apart on most issues, into civil conflict. It's hard to see how the center can hold when some are so intent on fanning the flames of hate.
Thanks, Brigid. You may be right about some trans people pushing children to explore their "gender identities." I'm not involved in education and know very little about the whole transgender scene so I don't have an informed opinion about that.
I said this more in more blunt terms above but personal experience is important but not authoritative. as in most cases, many in any given community are too busy living their lives to take an active role in any cause. there are also people of all stripes. My neighbors of 20 years were two of the most conservative, I mean rush Limbaugh listener conservative, people I ever met. Good friends in every way, despite the Limbaugh thing, and great family men. But the leadership and the people who define the movement are the extreme and there is no pushback. never has been. And all the votes go one way.
You have a point about "the people who define the movement." I'm not involved with politics of it all and have no idea what the LGBT bigwigs are up to. Probably nothing good. What I can tell you is that the average gay man has no interest in "converting" children.
I think it's important to draw a hard line between the sexual orientation side of things, us LGB folk, and the trans side. For reasons that remain a mystery to me, we've been smooshed together. Many straight people are confused about the whole the pick-a-pronoun thing and, if that's you, believe me, I'm right there with ya. Gender ideologues really do seem to think that people can choose willy-nilly to be a woman or a man or anything in between. I know because I've read this opinion plenty of times online. Are they teaching this ideology to kids? I'm sure they are. Are these ideas leading more kids to "come out" as trans? Probably.
How do you explain that there are drag queens who want to read to / perform in front of children? I'm not saying it's sexual or to "turn them gay", but it strikes me as incredibly weird.
I can see how the whole Drag Queen Story Hour weirds people out. I've only seen drag shows in adult contexts -- at gay bars -- and they were definitely raunchy affairs. Do drag queens reading for children edit out all the sexual stuff? I would assume so though I've never been to any of these story hours.
You asked why a drag queen would want to read / perform in front of kids and I think I know why. Many adult drag queens felt the calling to crossdress when they were kids themselves. These were the little boys who put on their moms lipstick and strutted around in their sister's dresses -- or yearned to anyway. As you might imagine, not every parent is or was supportive of this kind of thing. Now that these drag queens are all grown up they want to tell kids what they wished an adult had told them: that it's OK to dress as and pretend to be another gender.
Any time a childless man wearing a dress wants to spend time with other peoples children it seems creepy/weird to me - no matter if it's a drag queen or a catholic priest.
I think a lot of this stuff is probably a moral panic with perhaps a few isolated incidents that went too far. And of course there are also a few predators that use identity politics as a shield.
I think you are probably correct in what apparently motivated the marchers to behave as they did- they wanted to “give the finger” to conservatives. I guess we all want to do that sometimes, to people we believe have treated us badly.
But can we agree to leave children out of it? Marchers were not only chanting about children. They were exposing themselves in the parades, riding bikes in the nude. Are gays exempt from any standards of behavior and decorum, simply because they are gay?
I can’t agree with the idea that the behavior is not egregious, because they aren’t really coming after the children. The behavior is still appalling.
And professional adults, of all persuasions, are encouraging very young children to question often if they might be in the wrong body? I’m a B by the way. I’m also a survivor (barely) of psychiatry. It occurred to me recently that right as the “chemical imbalance” theory was finally debunked there was an explosion of diagnoses of people being born “in the wrong body.” Is this not just another “chemical imbalance” narrative? Both often cause dependence on pharma. Coincidence or business model?
Thank you. The speed of the institutional takeover is breathtaking. Progressives have been playing from Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine playbook to push these ideologies into schools in the wake of the pandemic. It's not only individual activist teachers, but also coming down from state depts of ed, teachers colleges and the unions as curriculum directives, DEI trainings and coerced speech about pronouns, "I am an ally." etc.
As a teacher, most troubling to me is the erosion of trust with parents. The law has always been clear about who the listed guardians are and unless that is revoked through some kind of due process or the student turns 18, I don't keep anything from you about your child. Now teachers have to, by law and district policies, keep information such as new names and gender identities from parents in order to be gender affirming. Why?? Why are teachers and schools suddenly adjudicating something so earth shatteringly important? We didn't sign up for this!
Another example of the takeover is how many school districts now march in the Pride parades, billed as "family friendly." Even elementary staff and students were encouraged by administrators to attend. Again, why?? Pride parades were always like spring break for gay people. Wild and raunchy and out there, not in the least child friendly. As you said, why are we suddenly supposed to go along with all this?
As a former Portland OR resident, I am noting with interest the increasing presence of Antifa defending transgender activists in the English speaking world. Provocateurs? What better way to bring about the chaos and anarchy you seek than coming for people's children?! I'd be interested in your take on Andy Ngo's work.
They keep confirming what we "here-to-fore-bigots" (get it right, will ya?) said that got us labeled bigots in the first place.
It's as if they think by owning our greivances, all of history is re-written, in which the one recurring "truth" is Orwell was a documentarian, and his happy-to-us/nightmarish-to-them ending never happens.
Sure they're recruiting children. Since they don't reproduce in the ordinary way it's the only way to keep the cult alive.
Similar things happened with the Shaker colonies (Mother Ann Lee) in the 1800's, except they were not immoral creeps - again proving that this "Pride" thing is nothing more than another religious movement.
It looks like trolling based on the old homophobic fear that gay people can convert otherwise heterosexual people. It was always funny because it's rooted in people's own repression. (the loudest condemnation coming from people who turn out to be struggling with their own gay impulses).
The conflating of this stuff with grooming is moral panic. Grooming is a real and context-specific thing that is also thankfully fairly rare. This public stuff is not the same thing.
And normally I don't care if people want to fret and worry about non-existent bugaboos, but the problem is that this fear tends to lead to increased criminalization, things like the ridiculously overdone sex registries and other witch-huntery. Another instance of fear causing us to trade away freedom in exchange for "safety".
Sorry guys - the "most LGBs don't agree" dog is not hunting. we all noticed who won the war and who decided not to take prisoners. it went immediately from "leave us alone" to "comply or be run out of business." No one objected. Those flags in the businesses windows are compliance stickers as much as supporters.* I will accept what any individual says but the votes all go in one direction. same as the balck and hispanic votes.
* not that it helps. those storeowners who supported the Chicago Teachers Union in their shop windows in its efforts not to teach children just had their places in the Lakeview area of chicago ransacked by a bunch of educationally neglected teens Monday night.
A note regarding the title: I should have said LGBTQ ideologues, not LGBTQ people. Not all LGBTQ people support what the movement has become. It's unfair to lump everyone together.
I was thinking about that as I read your article. I'm sure the majority of people who are gay don't approve of this behavior and feel if anything it threatens what this community has been after for years, acceptance.
Exactly my experience and opinion.
There is no LGBT, because the original LGB labels describe a set of sexual orientations, while T is a personal perception of gender having nothing to do with sexual attraction. Pedophilia and Ephebophilia are not particularly common among those attracted to their own sex. In fact, we find that most pedophiles and ephebophiles do not have a particular gender preference. It's the innocence of youth that is the attraction.
So true. Watch Gutfeld! to see some great LGBTQ journalists/writers/comedians/pundits/personalities/yougetthepicture/this*is*the+ of the right.
It always amazes me that even though they claim they really are not "coming for our children" the pride folks are always at events with children, but I have NEVER seen them at the old folks home where I do rounds periodically. The old folks would be happy with ANY visitor -- but somehow the "not interested in the children" group are only interested in parades watched by children and reading books to children. Most of the old folks might listen to the books (they have little else to do) irrespective of what they say...but somehow there are no books about how "old folks can be queer" out there...but dozens about how children should be.
Does it all not seem odd to you?
Well, although I don't approve of their behavior, or their explanation for engaging in it the young not yet indoctrinated, and more open minded would be the ones to reach out to. Of course it is quite obvious that they could learn by example, from parents, from teachers, from family, etc. I had a brother who was gay, and died of AIDS in the late eighties. When he was five it was even obvious that he was gay. An aunt singled him out at a Christmas party as he was stuffing his face with cake, and no one was about except me. "How does it feel to be a little homosexual boy?" she hissed, then spit in his face. I know full well all the pain he endured from a lack of acceptance. When we were small I use to have to beat guys up who tormented him, abused him when we were coming home from school, and since you're a doctor, well, when he had AIDs the docs were better then the nursing staff, the aids, and the rest of the hospital staff, but it was a horror, and not a caring refuge. I know my brother would never condone their behavior or think it was a way of changing people's minds, or seeing him for the good person he was. To me they make a mockery of all the pain people like my brother went through in the past in order to find acceptance.
Very well said
Thanks.
but the ideolgues were always coming for the kids. tired of fighting with my wife about this so you guys get the brunt, sorry. Look at the percentages of kids identifying as non-straight. It has exploded and interestingly the explosion is along political/demographic lines. My youngest just graduated an extremely affluent public high school which is under the control of these ideologues. The percentage of kids that identify as a member of the rainbow is through the roof. A fair amount of these kids are trying to avoid the "white privledge" label being stuck on them as a badge of shame by the people who are supposed to be guiding them. a couple of his friends have come out as openly gay or bi just to avoid the BS. Neither of them were and they just went on as normal but they had checked a box to remove the stigma. but what about the more impressionable kids? the ones with less self esteem/respect? we will have decades to deal with the damage our educational establishment has done the last 5 years on this and everything else.
You, Brad, are a great writer.
Reasonable people can disagree about whether kids ought to be taught anything about gay and transgender people in public schools. Personally, I don't think it needs to be part of any standard curriculum though it would be weird to teach "sex ed" and not mention the possibility of same sex relations. There's an argument to be made that kids are exposed to sexuality too early and are losing the innocence that ought to be integral to childhood. I'm on board with that line of thinking. But but but...this debate has nothing to do with the chant at the NYC Pride parade. The marchers at that parade don't intend to "groom" children. Nobody is wanting to make anybody else gay. That's just not on the agenda and, as a gay man myself, I believe I have some insight into the topic.
So why then did some of the marchers shout "we're coming for your children?" Because they knew it would upset and bait the kind of people who read this blog and because they were angry and wanted to basically give conservatives the finger. Because they thought it would be funny to pretend to be the monsters they are accused of being. Because they enjoy being provocative and outlandish and wanted negative attention.
Was it a stupid thing to say? Absolutely. Are they actual child molesters out to turn kids into little gays? Absolutely not. People who think they shouted the slogan because they really and truly intended to hurt children have misunderstood what went on.
I was hoping you would comment and appreciate your perspective. Thank you.
> Was it a stupid thing to say? Absolutely. Are they actual child molesters out to turn kids into little gays? Absolutely not.
I don't believe you can credibly say that though. The only credible thing is what was said. Their intent and meaning are only speculative and while you speculate - and as do I - you and I can only both rely on their actual statements.
You don't have to be believe me Jason but I think I know my gay men. I've been an out gay fellow for decades now: marched in plenty of gay parades in the 90s, got arrested for civil disobedience in an ActUp demonstration, loved and lost and loved some more, and now, finally, am settling down into quiet gay middle-aged obscurity. I don't claim any expertise on lesbians or anything trans but gay men I know. And I can tell you that we're not interested in turning children gay. That's an ugly myth.
I know my gay men too and I'm with you, but there are new elements suddenly empowered in the mix. Some genuinely seem to think children have gender identities that should be explored and celebrated, which is a dangerous travesty of made up psychobabble but has many TikTokkers convinced. There are also anarchist and revolutionary agents provocateurs trying to drive Americans, who actually aren't that far apart on most issues, into civil conflict. It's hard to see how the center can hold when some are so intent on fanning the flames of hate.
Thanks, Brigid. You may be right about some trans people pushing children to explore their "gender identities." I'm not involved in education and know very little about the whole transgender scene so I don't have an informed opinion about that.
I said this more in more blunt terms above but personal experience is important but not authoritative. as in most cases, many in any given community are too busy living their lives to take an active role in any cause. there are also people of all stripes. My neighbors of 20 years were two of the most conservative, I mean rush Limbaugh listener conservative, people I ever met. Good friends in every way, despite the Limbaugh thing, and great family men. But the leadership and the people who define the movement are the extreme and there is no pushback. never has been. And all the votes go one way.
You have a point about "the people who define the movement." I'm not involved with politics of it all and have no idea what the LGBT bigwigs are up to. Probably nothing good. What I can tell you is that the average gay man has no interest in "converting" children.
I think it's important to draw a hard line between the sexual orientation side of things, us LGB folk, and the trans side. For reasons that remain a mystery to me, we've been smooshed together. Many straight people are confused about the whole the pick-a-pronoun thing and, if that's you, believe me, I'm right there with ya. Gender ideologues really do seem to think that people can choose willy-nilly to be a woman or a man or anything in between. I know because I've read this opinion plenty of times online. Are they teaching this ideology to kids? I'm sure they are. Are these ideas leading more kids to "come out" as trans? Probably.
But this has nothing to do with being gay.
How do you explain that there are drag queens who want to read to / perform in front of children? I'm not saying it's sexual or to "turn them gay", but it strikes me as incredibly weird.
I can see how the whole Drag Queen Story Hour weirds people out. I've only seen drag shows in adult contexts -- at gay bars -- and they were definitely raunchy affairs. Do drag queens reading for children edit out all the sexual stuff? I would assume so though I've never been to any of these story hours.
You asked why a drag queen would want to read / perform in front of kids and I think I know why. Many adult drag queens felt the calling to crossdress when they were kids themselves. These were the little boys who put on their moms lipstick and strutted around in their sister's dresses -- or yearned to anyway. As you might imagine, not every parent is or was supportive of this kind of thing. Now that these drag queens are all grown up they want to tell kids what they wished an adult had told them: that it's OK to dress as and pretend to be another gender.
Any time a childless man wearing a dress wants to spend time with other peoples children it seems creepy/weird to me - no matter if it's a drag queen or a catholic priest.
I think a lot of this stuff is probably a moral panic with perhaps a few isolated incidents that went too far. And of course there are also a few predators that use identity politics as a shield.
I think you are probably correct in what apparently motivated the marchers to behave as they did- they wanted to “give the finger” to conservatives. I guess we all want to do that sometimes, to people we believe have treated us badly.
But can we agree to leave children out of it? Marchers were not only chanting about children. They were exposing themselves in the parades, riding bikes in the nude. Are gays exempt from any standards of behavior and decorum, simply because they are gay?
I can’t agree with the idea that the behavior is not egregious, because they aren’t really coming after the children. The behavior is still appalling.
And professional adults, of all persuasions, are encouraging very young children to question often if they might be in the wrong body? I’m a B by the way. I’m also a survivor (barely) of psychiatry. It occurred to me recently that right as the “chemical imbalance” theory was finally debunked there was an explosion of diagnoses of people being born “in the wrong body.” Is this not just another “chemical imbalance” narrative? Both often cause dependence on pharma. Coincidence or business model?
Might also be that they are baiting conservatives into saying something that can then be construed as bigotry.
Thank you. The speed of the institutional takeover is breathtaking. Progressives have been playing from Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine playbook to push these ideologies into schools in the wake of the pandemic. It's not only individual activist teachers, but also coming down from state depts of ed, teachers colleges and the unions as curriculum directives, DEI trainings and coerced speech about pronouns, "I am an ally." etc.
As a teacher, most troubling to me is the erosion of trust with parents. The law has always been clear about who the listed guardians are and unless that is revoked through some kind of due process or the student turns 18, I don't keep anything from you about your child. Now teachers have to, by law and district policies, keep information such as new names and gender identities from parents in order to be gender affirming. Why?? Why are teachers and schools suddenly adjudicating something so earth shatteringly important? We didn't sign up for this!
Another example of the takeover is how many school districts now march in the Pride parades, billed as "family friendly." Even elementary staff and students were encouraged by administrators to attend. Again, why?? Pride parades were always like spring break for gay people. Wild and raunchy and out there, not in the least child friendly. As you said, why are we suddenly supposed to go along with all this?
As a former Portland OR resident, I am noting with interest the increasing presence of Antifa defending transgender activists in the English speaking world. Provocateurs? What better way to bring about the chaos and anarchy you seek than coming for people's children?! I'd be interested in your take on Andy Ngo's work.
Thanks for letting me post, M. Brad. I had to move you back 1 (one) month. I *will* subscribe in August!
They keep confirming what we "here-to-fore-bigots" (get it right, will ya?) said that got us labeled bigots in the first place.
It's as if they think by owning our greivances, all of history is re-written, in which the one recurring "truth" is Orwell was a documentarian, and his happy-to-us/nightmarish-to-them ending never happens.
Sure they're recruiting children. Since they don't reproduce in the ordinary way it's the only way to keep the cult alive.
Similar things happened with the Shaker colonies (Mother Ann Lee) in the 1800's, except they were not immoral creeps - again proving that this "Pride" thing is nothing more than another religious movement.
You're an excellent writer with consistent spot-on analysis. A++. Great work.
It looks like trolling based on the old homophobic fear that gay people can convert otherwise heterosexual people. It was always funny because it's rooted in people's own repression. (the loudest condemnation coming from people who turn out to be struggling with their own gay impulses).
The conflating of this stuff with grooming is moral panic. Grooming is a real and context-specific thing that is also thankfully fairly rare. This public stuff is not the same thing.
And normally I don't care if people want to fret and worry about non-existent bugaboos, but the problem is that this fear tends to lead to increased criminalization, things like the ridiculously overdone sex registries and other witch-huntery. Another instance of fear causing us to trade away freedom in exchange for "safety".
So glad you wrote this. Great stuff.
Sorry guys - the "most LGBs don't agree" dog is not hunting. we all noticed who won the war and who decided not to take prisoners. it went immediately from "leave us alone" to "comply or be run out of business." No one objected. Those flags in the businesses windows are compliance stickers as much as supporters.* I will accept what any individual says but the votes all go in one direction. same as the balck and hispanic votes.
* not that it helps. those storeowners who supported the Chicago Teachers Union in their shop windows in its efforts not to teach children just had their places in the Lakeview area of chicago ransacked by a bunch of educationally neglected teens Monday night.